Czuch: Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats....
But it seems,at least to me from what you post that you attack Democrats and Liberals in the same breath,it seems,again,to me anywho,that you DO label them as one in the same.

Czuch: I supported Hillary,but being Canadian I can't vote in the USA

Jim Dandy: LMAO!!

anastasia: I do sometimes, and i regret that.... sometimes its hard for me to separate the two, and to be honest, I am still trying to find out what a liberal is or what a democrat is? Thats why i get into trouble when i generalize too much and paint all libs and dems with a broad brush.... but I think you can do that with conservatives, we all have certain core things in common, and that is a problem fro liberals, because I dont see anything really in common except that you all tend to lean towards socialism, at least compared to conservatives, but I never heard any of you admit that, or anything really, just how you hate big business and you think with your hearts instead of your brains...

Jim Dandy: ;)

Czuch: "except that you all tend to"..."but I never heard any of you" so,now you are generalizing ME into that catagory as well???

hahaha, who was saying on gen chat that this board would be dead compared to them???? hahah we have over 400 posts already compared to what 25 over there in the same time???

Czuch: True,but many of these posts should be on the media board

anastasia: not you... I think you are a conservative in liberals clothing, you just havent realized it yet... haha that was me too not so many years back....

Just do me a favor... do you ever have the chance to find Neil Bortz on the radio? He is a Libertarian radio talk show host... listen to him everyday at work or wherever for a week or two, and I gaurantee you, you will be saying to yourself all the time, "hey, that makes sense" "yeah, thats logical" "oh I never thought about it that way"... he has a very unique way of taking a topic and just looking at it in a nice logical manner, no hate or rants or the like, just discussion of issues and current events in a thoughtful logical manner, with insights that will open your eyes and make you think about issues like you never did before, and if you can listen to this guy for a couple of weeks and then come back here and tell me you arent leaning more conservative than you ever imagined, i will leave you be forever!

Jim Dandy: I didnt know we had a media board?

But I agree with Art, we are discussing political bias in the media, I guess it could work there as well, maybe we should paste some of this in there and see if we can get any fresh opinions?

Just looked, i didnt find the media board?

Czuch: forever!!?? ohhh,you are such a tease,you bad boy...I have my opinions on things,unfortunatly,I have 2 people,just like you to choose from when it comes time to vote...NOW,if everyone here would vote for ME next election,I shall run and become President so that I can get a nice blend of real idea into the country..I HATE that people say...Dems are THIS way...or Rep are THAT way...there were a few Rep's that got voted out this past election...not because they were doing a bad job,they weren't,BUT because your precious Bush dicked things up so bad...it was like a hunt just to get ANYONE with the title of Rep out of office...it's politics..it's nasty,I don't agree with the way things are done,but untill you vote me in,there isn't to much I can really do about it

Czuch: Maybe you're right,leave the tv,radio board to discussions of Laverne and Shirley

Jim Dandy: yeah, thats a board I am sure you wont find much political coverage except how good looking Obama is....

Bush shoe story on MSNBC, and then they add and show a protest in Iraq with "thousands" (supposedly) of protesters, in a country with millions of people, this is a very small protest march at best, and doesnt represent the feelings of a majority at all... but they are trying to portray it like that, to make Bush look bad because they hate Bush, and they agree with the protest themselves.

cant any Bush haters see this bias???? If this were a pro bush rally in Iraq, they would either not cover it at all, or they would point out exactly how few people were involved and how insignificant it really was!

They also fail to mention that it is because of Bush that these people can even have the ability and freedom to make this kind of march!!!! Cant any bush hater see this and at least admit it does exists??

If this were some democrat who liberated them, thats all you would hear about, "look at these freedom loving people who now have the freedom to dissent, just like we do here, how lucky they are now, free from the dictatorship of evil saddam, able to finally enjoy the freedom that we democrats gave to them, arent we such good people!!!!!

Czuch: maybe if Bush hadn't wanked off the entire time he was in office and made a mess with,well EVERYTHING HE TOUCHED,people would care...but he did,and they don't

Czuch: What's GW's popularity rating in Iraq? and if it's low,how many Iraq housholds are hooked up to American cable?

Artful Dodger: George Bush, because of his aides policies???

Jim Dandy: I dont know for sure... but I happen to believe it is not low, probably higher there than here! Why only a protest by a few thousand when the country has 25 million people?

My personal experience is with Vietnam, it was the same there then as iraq is here now, basically. I have been to Vietnam as a tourist, and the overwhelming majority there were happy with what we tried to do for their country and their only regret was that we left them hanging in a lurch!!

Give Iraq 20 years and my bet is that you will find the same kind of sentiments as well!

Artful Dodger: I don't know,when I watch hilites of a football game where a team was trounced say, 45-10,I'd be more skeptical if the reporter focused on the great field goal kicked by the losing team

Artful Dodger: not a chance, I dont even have to look at the link!

Czuch: I don't think you'll find many people (Democrat or Republican) disagreeing that Saddam was a bad man,or that Iraq wasn't exactly a happy place to live for most of its people.The divide kicks in when asked if it was worth the sacrifice.

Jim Dandy: ,I'd be more skeptical if the reporter focused on the great field goal kicked by the losing team


Thats what I am saying too!!! MSNBC is trying to focus on a small rally against support for Bush, and they neglect to mention that it is because of Bush that they have that right to protest, and that there are 24.98 million people out of 25 million who were not at that rally!

Czuch: Are you saying that if someone was not at the rally they support Bush?

Jim Dandy: The divide kicks in when asked if it was worth the sacrifice.

I dont know how much energy any of us have left for this debate again.... but that is as honest assessment I have heard lately.

The point some people miss ( in my opinion anyway) is that we were already making a huge sacrifice in Iraq before the war, and I believe that even though we increased our sacrifice, in the short term, and the sacrifice came more in human lives than in dollars, that in the long term, decades even, we would have sacrificed a lot more than we will have now.

Again, one of my beefs with liberals, they tend to be too short term oriented... but with the time and money spent keeping an eye on Saddam (and then his sons after he died and then their sons) and the money spent to help the Iraqi people because saddam spent all their riches on palaces and such... I think we got a bargain... bottom line... we would have sacrificed more in both wasted time and money than we ever will bringing them some semblance of freedom and a chance to live their lives free from the aid of the US, and that is good for both them and us, a win win situation!

Artful Dodger: I'd say that Fox reporters get more than their share of praise when they show balance.Carl Cameron and Shepard Smith have been praised for their objectivity often in the last few months,and rightly so.

Czuch: I agree,I've said all I care to on the subject,but this is an interesting recent discussion

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/28262158#28262158

Jim Dandy: Are you saying that if someone was not at the rally they support Bush?

Well, obviously, no......

But the news showed a really close up shot of the event ( no wide screen from a helicopter or whatever) and then claimed "thousands" of people.... more likely somewhat less than 1000 people, and my watchful eye on media bias tells me that if they really had a huge rally they would have showed it in all its bush hating glory, and it would have been a true news event and story, and would have been legit, but instead they found a few hundred people with signs and had to throw it in there because they hate bush.... call me crazy

Jim Dandy: That is a good video, I have to admit that without ever hearing this guy before, i agree with everything he is saying, and my opinion is that Chris mathews looks like a complete idiot! But I can see there are 2 sides but I also believe that half the people are idiots, and I am not swayed that so many idtiots believe one thing or another, thing is everything this guy is saying is true, and the other guy is just a war hating bush hater givig the same ol blah blah blah, but then you probably will tell me the same about the guy that agrees with me

Artful Dodger: Wallace has really improved,I think he values the respect of his peers.They are not replacing Colmes with a liberal counter, Beckel handles Hannity well,he'd be perfect.

Other than Hannity, Fox has removed some of the harder edge,but that's a logical move considering the shift in the political scene.

Czuch: I love Mathews style,he's like a dog who won't let go of your pant leg

I think both sides of the fence were fairly represented in that discussion

Czuch: Hard news is just one part of Fox news. Same as with the BBC showing 'hard news' as well as ed's and the like. IE interviews.

Simple.

Artful Dodger: Name all the conservative outlets for news and views by any media.... how many hundreds are there.

As I said, this is the modern age, TV no longer has the dominance that it use to.

Jim Dandy: Sometimes I find reading or watching both left and right gets you closer to the truth.... You know.. read between the lines and that they take each other to task and keep the other side .. Um, for the lack of a better word.... honest.

(V): Sometimes I find reading or watching both left and right gets you closer to the truth.... You know.. read between the lines and that they take each other to task and keep the other side .. Um, for the lack of a better word.... honest.


Well, thats exactly why there needs to be a fox news out there, liberals love to hate fox news, but the fact is fox is the only right leaning news compared to every single other tv news outlet in America which have a bias to the left!


But it should not have to be like that.... we dont need one station showing a close up of a protest crowd trying to paint a picture of wide dissent, and then another news outlet pointing out how great it is that they have the freedom to dissent, we shouldnt have to watch every news show just to get an accurate picture of a news event!!!!

If news did the job it is supposed to do, then one story would accurately portray the size of the protest, and put it in context for us, maybe compare it to the size of other protests by the other side in the past, and also point out that at least we have given them the opportunity to make this protest possible.... that is the news I want! But because of biases, the so called news outlets dont want us to have any positive thoughts about Iraq....... wouldnt you rather be able to make up you own mind based on all the facts than be lead into your beliefs like sheep based on what some news outlet believes for you???

(V): I agree,it's not wise to make decisions without hearing both sides of an argument

Czuch: I remember fairly recently seeing O'Reilly feature cross dressers invading a church in San Fran seeking comunion.The story was framed in such a way as to make it much more extreme than the reality of the situation dictated.I can only imagine what a 24/7 Fox viewer thinks of anyone not Republican,and the same for a 24/7 viewer of MSNBC

Czuch: Not quite true... Maybe.. Fox is the only dedicated right wing news TV cable channel, but what about digital TV and normal terrestrial? Plus with all the radio stations on the conservative slant, etc... you right wingers do have quite a voice.

Oh we've had positive news on Iraq.. Our British troops will be withdrawn by July next year and re stationed in Afghanistan giving that war a much needed boost in active personnel. I hear the same starting to happen to American troops.

..... Maybe they'll catch ol Bin with the extra troops.

The other news about Iraq.... Gordon Brown has stated that after our troops have left a full scale inquiry (as requested by so many MP's and citizens) will be able to go ahead into what happened and why we went in, as many questions have arisen since the war that have not been answered for fear of putting our troops at a disadvantage.

(V): Plus with all the radio stations on the conservative slant, etc... you right wingers do have quite a voice.


how dull do you have to be to keep this up??? I am not saying there are no conservative voices out there, all I am say is that there are some tv outlets that produce what is supposed to be hard news shows, and those are the types of shows I am talking about... strictly tv hard news in america, thats all!

Czuch: (V) thinks the cartoon shows ARE the hard news.....poor fellow

Jim Dandy: and to you again.... everybody knows that oreily is a conservative and what he does is not considered hard news!


stick with me guys please, I am talking world news tonight, for example... or the cbs evening news, those types of news programing which is supposed to be objective reporting of facts, not opinions or slants on them!

Tuesday: nobody said I cant afford a membership....and I am not a republican but more a conservative with libertarian views who almost always votes republican.... lol the last election I voted for one democrat and that poor sucker lost!

Czuch: well I am not. I'm talking all communication types.

Bernice: Nope I still have my marbles.

(V): okayt nothing to debate then....


you have to remember too though, that you and I are not your average news watcher, but the majority of people actually get most of their news from places like the CBS evening news or the like.... these are the people who make or break an election, and these are the people who see Katie Couric telling us how we should view things in Iraq.... it may not shape your or my opinions, but there are millions of sheeple out there who just go by whatever tom brokaw tells them to go by, and 9 times out of 10 that is slanted by liberal minded news people.

Czuch: I look at the wording, so often it's over dramatised and made bigger just for impact sake rather then accurate reporting.

Over here, they have party political broadcasts and things like question time for politicians to waffle on, so much of the news is kept clean of politics except for news on what they are doing, budget, PM question time (always a good laugh no matter who's in power)

But that's the normal stations.. cable ones can be a little more .... well they are privately owned, but still report to the regulators same as the normal ones.

Artful Dodger: What Nixon did is pretty minor,he just got caught.,People were just far more niave then,and much less cynical.To some it was as shocking as the time they learned Santa didn't.........nevermind