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13. september 2009, 01:45:42
Papa Zoom 
Jules, Obama didn't ever really outline the details of his plan.  He gave some general ideas and revealed his "big picture" but not the details.  Many questions have gone unanswered.

Also, Obama was put in the White House by the Independents.  Those same people are now scratching their heads because they are beginning to see the clear descrepencys between what was pre-election promises and post-election reality.  It's not the Right that's opposing his health care ideas, it's the Right, AND the Middle and those folks include many in his own party.

13. september 2009, 10:11:04
Mort 
Teema: Re:
Artful Dodger: I don't know where you got you figures from, but from a quick scan of polls.. I'd say it's divided. 85% of Democrats seem to approve of what he is saying.

As to clarity of his plans.. before the speech, many were not sure, but since that figure has decreased dramatically.

Part of the confusion over his plans seems to directly come from those who oppose him and his reforms presuming and creating fear... rather than a 'wait and see'.

Those who've watched his speech in full, seem to feel that he has a plan, he is explaining it... and, as he said, next week more will be released in clear legislation.

I got this info from scanning a few polls. Though as usual in polls a few % points either way has to be included as a matter of the inherent problem that polls have.

13. september 2009, 18:14:24
Papa Zoom 
Teema: Re:
(V):  It's not surprising that a high percentage of Democrats favor his "plan."   And it's true that he's clarified some of his ideas in his speech (which I DID watch in full).  Still, there are many unanswered question.  But back to your original claim.  You suggested that people ought not to be surprised with what Obama is doing as president because they knew of these things since he explained them in his campaign.  It's your assertion that's in dispute and others have said you were wrong in your analysis.  Obama didn't clarify anything in his pre-election speeches.  Few knew what he stood for.  It's becoming clear now that Obama wants to fundamentally change America.  That's why people are going crazy.  The budget experts are telling us (the people) that Obama's plans will only raise taxes and increase the deficit by billions (if not trillions).  There's no other way it can be paid for.  Obama can't explain how this will all work other than to speak in generalities and ambiguities.  

BTW, the polls show him losing ground, not gaining it.

13. september 2009, 18:35:30
Mort 
Teema: Re:
Mort toimetatud (13. september 2009, 18:36:32)
Artful Dodger: As he said in his speech, more will be explained next week. He did the speech as many right wingers are making bogus claims about what he means, and he wanted to state his position, not 'spin'.

"Obama didn't clarify anything in his pre-election speeches. Few knew what he stood for."

Really.. I cannot agree from what I've seen of his pre election stuff. Plus if Obama was vague... then Palin and McCain were so vague that vague looks like a fact.

"others have said you were wrong in your analysis."

Nobody has presented anything to back their claims. That's my whole point. Where is the stuff to back up what some folks are saying??

"The budget experts are telling us (the people) that Obama's plans will only raise taxes and increase the deficit by billions (if not trillions)."

Can you elaborate and break down what these "experts" are saying, as it sounds like this is a general statement, not specific.

Btw.. The polls did show he was losing ground, but since his speech that he is gaining confidence... But if you have polls that differ, please present their figures.

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