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 PoliticsForum for discussing local and world politics and issues. All views are welcomed. Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. All standard guidelines apply to this board, No Flaming, No Taunting, No Foul Language,No sexual innuendos,etc.. As politics can be a volatile subject, please consider how you would feel if your comment were directed toward yourself. Any post deemed to be in violation of guidelines will be deleted or edited without warning or notification. Any continued misbehavior will result in a ban or hidden status, so please play nice!!! *"Moderators are here for a reason. If a moderator (or Global Moderator or Fencer) requests that a discussion on a certain subject to cease - for whatever reason - please respect these wishes. Failure to do so may result in being hidden, or banned." Sa ei tohi sellesse vestlusringi kirjutada. Madalaim lubatud liikmelisustase sellesse vestlusringi kirjutamiseks on Ajuettur. Režiim: Igaüks võib postitada
25. veebruar 2009, 14:44:13 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): Ah yes, Dune is a terrific book. Little did the emperor realize he had such tough desert folk to contend with, and he could never have predicted the rise of the Kwisatz Haderach! The point is well taken. Governments DO fear "a strong people, people that think, being able to see through" smoke & mirrors to the truth of the matter. That is why, ultimately, I am an optimist. It may take a long time, but those who oppress sow the seeds of their own doom. And we all (maybe not in this lifetime) reap what we sow, for better or worse. 25. veebruar 2009, 18:42:28 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: I'm well aware of the rules of Karma through reincarnation (or transmigration as some old Christians use to call it) As said, this is a world designed for education. As for a long time... ... depends. Since the evolution of the internet, it's much harder for people to hide things from the public. 25. veebruar 2009, 18:47:04 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): That is very true, as long as the internet remains an unregulated information highway. It is a godsend. And yes, that is precisely what I was referring to... :o) 25. veebruar 2009, 22:53:14 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): Since the evolution of the internet, it's much harder for people to hide things from the public. Much harder to hide things except the biggest government conspiracy cover up ever!  25. veebruar 2009, 23:09:49 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post....  Czuch: Much harder to hide things except the biggest government conspiracy cover up ever ROFL 26. veebruar 2009, 10:44:55 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: Nahhh We all now about Bush and the lies over Saddam's WMD's. That cover up has already been blown.  As for petrol taxes.. obviously not enough tax. 26. veebruar 2009, 15:48:29 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): As for petrol taxes.. obviously not enough tax. Well it varies by state, but in California for example, its about 55 cents per gallon..... 26. veebruar 2009, 15:54:57 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: 55 cents.. Oh wow that is high..... NOT!!!</b> Drivers over here pay road tax, to help maintain the highways they drive on, they pay a high duty on petrol rather then those who don't drive paying tax for them. But on the other side, some of the problem seems to be the oil companies, who make extra ordinary profits and are slow to pass on savings re reductions in the cost of oil. 26. veebruar 2009, 15:57:18 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): Its about a quarter of the total cost.... what is your tax rate then? 26. veebruar 2009, 16:02:29 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: Duty on petrol is about £2 per US gallon, plus VAT!!! 26. veebruar 2009, 16:05:03 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): so you pay about a $1.50 more per gallon in just taxes than we pay for it in total  26. veebruar 2009, 16:12:22 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: Yeah and nobody goes hungry. What a concept! Besides, if I'm not mistaken, England has invested in public transit, whereas in America in most places you drive or you're up the creek. 26. veebruar 2009, 16:22:32 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: Nobody in the UK goes hungry???? They better have a lot of public transport... who except the wealthy can afford to drive???? At least over here, the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor... over there, the poor cant afford to drive! 26. veebruar 2009, 16:31:20 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" Czuch: Really? What printout did you read to get that info...the one supplied by the wealthy? lol The wealthy jack up prices mercilessly unless & until people just have to stop buying gas. Then naturally they lower them. It's called monopoly capitalism. 26. veebruar 2009, 16:35:10 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" The Usurper: Where do you think the money comes from for the 'hand outs' to the oil companies? 26. veebruar 2009, 16:51:38 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" Czuch: So you're saying the money comes from the wealthy to pay off the wealthy? No my friend, the money comes from me & you, in taxes, in future debt, in inflation, and through price gouging. 26. veebruar 2009, 16:56:54 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" The Usurper: The top 10% wealthiest Americans pay over 90% of the taxes in the US, so when the government subsidizes the oil companies, the majority of that money comes from the wealthy! Without those subsidies, gas prices would be at $8 instead of $2... so I would think you would be advocating to let the rich keep paying the oil companies for lower gas costs for the poor? 26. veebruar 2009, 17:05:26 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" Czuch: Even if those stats were correct, which I correct, they still don't include inflation & price gouging. But it makes no sense to me, that a wealthy man would pay himself 6 dollars so he could offer gas for 6 dollars less. Maybe an oil guy pays a steel guy, and then a steel guy pays an oil guy, but it amounts to the same thing. It doesn't make sense and it isn't the way things work. Why are the rich getter richer and poor getting poorer? It can only be because wealth is being transferred. This is simple logic. 26. veebruar 2009, 17:13:45 Teema: Re: "the wealthy subsidizes the gas to keep prices lower for the poor" The Usurper: Look.... the government subsidizes the oil industry, the government gets most of its money from wealthy people, and they certainly get none from poor people, these subsidies make it possible for $2 gas instead of $8 without them... this has nothing to do with price gouging (maybe there is gouging, but that doesnt change the fact that subsidies keep gas prices lower) So in effect, it is the wealthy americans paying to keep gas prices lower for the poor people....something I would think you would advocate for not against? 26. veebruar 2009, 16:26:47 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: We have a high level of public transport, including some very good deals on using buses over a long distance. I can buy a ticket that lasts all day and gives me unlimited travel in our local area. Or even for about £1.50 more buy a ticket that allows me to travel long distances and is recognised by many bus companies. I use to do a 200 mile round trip in a day on the one ticket  26. veebruar 2009, 16:30:42 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): Yeah traveling by bus, thats convenient, and comfy, or going to run errands by bus or subway.... sounds like a load of fun to me... you can keep it, and I dont see Userper moving there anytime soon either  26. veebruar 2009, 16:32:35 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: If we had public transit to get me there...who knows. lol 26. veebruar 2009, 16:35:57 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: Didnt we just go over this recently?  26. veebruar 2009, 16:54:27 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: I thought our agreement was that cutting out handouts altogether, both to the rich & poor, is a better solution than we have know, because it would even the playing field and give everyone a chance to compete in a truly free market. Was that not our agreement? Then I said, if we keep the handout system, it is better to let the money trickle up than trickle down, for a variety of reasons. But we didn't agree on this point. 26. veebruar 2009, 16:58:47 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: Yes, I would be for cutting out all handouts, but it would mean a lot higher gas prices, and it would hurt the poor the most.... You seem to advocate for the poor, so I dont understand how you could favor something like that? 26. veebruar 2009, 17:06:34 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: czuch, I'm formally accusing you of being involved in the conspiracy to steal my chips in poker, along with fencer, both bushes, dick chaney, and the Queen of England 26. veebruar 2009, 17:10:43 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Charles Martel: You need some solid evidence before you can rightly accuse Czuch of such a conspiracy. As to conspiracies, I don't believe in them either, except the ones that are true. :o) 26. veebruar 2009, 17:08:17 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: I do advocate for the poor. It's just that they'd have a better chance in a free system than in a system stacked against them. "Does that include allowing companies to send jobs overseas" If we had a truly free market worldwide, sure that would be fine. Corporations aren't people, and they would need restrictions. 26. veebruar 2009, 17:16:29 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: Corporations aren't people You are good with your conspiracy stuff, but have a lot to learn about economics..... Corporations have all the same rights and responsibilities of an individual, economics 101 26. veebruar 2009, 17:23:59 Teema: Re: Economics 101 Czuch: The professor at the U. of Alaska (Rachunak, I think) tried to convert me to conservatism because I was his best student. There's plenty I don't know about economics, but I'm no dummy. 26. veebruar 2009, 22:11:07 Teema: Re: Corporations have all the same rights and responsibilities of an individual, economics 101 Czuch: Actually that is not true, corporations are also bound by rules that are specific to business. And in certain aspects have less rights than an individual, as they are bound by standards that an individual not running a business has no call to live by. 26. veebruar 2009, 17:06:21 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: give everyone a chance to compete in a truly free market Does that include allowing companies to send jobs overseas, if it helped them compete? Because i dont think most liberals like a market that free 26. veebruar 2009, 22:06:45 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: Actually the buses here a very good, comfy and regular. Our local service is every ten minutes, and most services in this area run at least 4 times an hour. The Buses have been built to cover the problems of wheelchairs and prams (the doorside can be lowered to the level of the kerb) and have easy access.. Certain supermarkets offer free delivery... you shop it, they pack it and deliver it. The bus companies are private run for the most, some services in some towns are free, it depends on where and what the service is for. The councils subsidise certain routes, and run a door to door service for OAP's and the disabled. Us British like them. 27. veebruar 2009, 03:16:56 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): You guys sound civilized. I've heard of that word, but never really experienced it. Civilization would be a good thing to have here. 27. veebruar 2009, 09:20:35 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... The Usurper: Takes years to develop. I know some Americans wished that we were still over in your country teaching you how to run a government. For example, your lobbyist system... never would be allowed over here. There was a big enough stink when one MP took money just to ask certain questions in Parliament. 26. veebruar 2009, 16:34:00 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... (V): You would think that public transport would cost you nothing with all the taxes you already pay to get it in the first place? 26. veebruar 2009, 16:21:52 Teema: Re: Some preliminary observations of your post.... Czuch: Yes.... But then again no-one can moan about the rich paying more taxes to subsidise fuel. Plus, in such cases as farmers there are special rates. |
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