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25. mai 2003, 20:38:57
harley 
Dmitri, here... "YEs. We agree, but probably not in terms of degree. I tihnk that the people we have discussed (those who truly cannot afford a membership) are veyr few and far between, so few that they are irrelevant to the discussion."

I' not going to get into a huge discussion about this, I think its enough to say that a) you cannot know how many people really are in this position and b) it wouldn't matter if it was 1 person or 1000 people. That statement is hurtful and demeaning to those people.

25. mai 2003, 20:52:24
Dmitri King 
Teema: Re:
We don't have to get into a huge discussion.

If we are talking about those who CAN afford to pay, but Don't, then the vast minority who CANNOT afford to pay are NOT relevant to the discussion, BECAUSE ET DISCUSSION IS ABOUT THOSE WHO CAN PAY BUT DO NOT!

Furthermore, to exempt a small minority from a discussion is not in any way demeaning! By your logic, if Iwas talking about prisoners, and I said "Of course, those small minority who are innocent are IRRELEVANT" you would say that I am demeaning the innocent!

Well, clearly that is not the case, they just are not RELEVANT to the discussion.

As for your point A) Of course we cannot kow how many are truly in that position. But one of the great things about human beings is our ability to reeasn, so I am entitled to use my poewers of reason to try to approximate.

1) I think we coudl all agree that those who cannot afford ten dollars for 6 months are fairly destitute.

2) That being the case, I would estimate that very few of the 4800 brain pawns are in that position.

I think ti is a fair assumption that most brain pawns just choose not to afford it. I have heard people say "Well, I have 8000 dolalrs of college loans, etc. etc. etc." So what? Lots of people have loans, I know many of thme, and all of them easily waste ten dollars over a 6 month period.

If someone really doesn;t spend ten dolalrs in 6 months on any type of luxuries, then that person truly canot afford a memberaship. If there is someone who actually fits that description, I would love to hear from him. BUt until then, people who spend 30 dollars a month on cable TV DO NOT qualify as "not being able to afford a 2 dolalrs a month membership"

I think our societyhas lost its sanity. SOmewhere along thel ine, a sense of entitlement crept in, such that luxuries are now considered necessities.

I think anyone who is in need of shelter, food, clothing, or medical care should havethese needs addressed. I support the existence of government institutions to handle these needs.

BUt I think it is really warped that people who spend money on certain luxuries then claim to not be able to affird other luxuries.

Don't get me wrong, when I have been poor, I wasted al ot of money. I gained enjoyment from junk food, movies, and other luxuries. BUt that is just what they were-- luxuries. And if something else came up that I did not have the money for, it wasn't because I could not afford it, it was because UI had chosen to spend them oney on other things.

You have taken issue with my approximatin the number of people who can and cannot afford an inxpensive membership. Why is one not alllowed to pproximate? Would you take issue with me if I said that "more than 99% of the people in this coutnry can afford to give away a nickle today?"

I don't think anyone would. Well, I seel ittle difference between that statement and my approximation about brain Pawns.

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