Well, NOT exactly!!

Dmitri writes: "The main point of contention seems to be that some (gary, myself, Harley, and others) believe that a variant has to be JUSTIFIED in order to exist on a gaming site. The opposing viewpoint, presented by Walter, Satan, Pioneer54, Ellieoop, and others is that a variant need not be justified beyond the generic "I want the variant so therefore it should be so."

Well sure, when you put it like that it sounds convincing, but this is a gross oversimplification, not to mention a terrible distortion. The game "Keryo13" sans restrictions is indeed a game, and is indeed a pente variant. You have chosen to refuse to recognize it as a variant, but you have not shown that it should not be here, other than offerings of a whimsical nature. (In fact, it WAS here for a short time, and as we all know it has been at IYT for several years, and will continue to be there.)

For example, I asked that you produce the analysis that assumes player 1 cannot be beaten in unrestricted keryo13 (assuming best play). Your response was really lame; you said no proof was needed, it stands on its own merit. Sorry, I'm not buying that, as it is tantamount to saying you can't prove it. You'll have to do better. Even if you could show what you purport to believe, I would not say that is cause to crusade for denying others the game (or variant) of their choice.

Dmitri writes: "I feel that Gary and I have given more than enough reasons for why this particular variant just should not exist on this gaming site (or any other for that matter)."

I really do not think you have, other than you just don't happen to like the idea. The notion that this game you so fervently wish to outlaw is somehow inhibiting masters from being produced (as Gary explicitly claimed) is rather absurd. You said yourself that the restriction is a "minor rule change". It is. Well, OK, if a player can't shift from the 13 board to the 19 board and quickly learn this MINOR RULE CHANGE, then how is that player ever going to master pente, tiddly-winks, or anything else??

Dmitri writes: "So, for pente or any game, the decision on whether to introduce a variant is a judgement call. SOME criteria MUST be used! If it were simply a matter of saying "well, this one was asked for so I'll do it" then every variant would be created, no matter how pointless it is, and we would be overrun with bad variants."

You've rambled on here, without making much of a point. No one is asking for endless amounts of variants. We are only asking for ONE variant, unrestricted Keryo13; more directly, we are asking that this game be reinstated. It isn't as though we came off the wall with some outlandish idea. THE GAME WAS HERE, until it got modified. Fencer should now rescind his arbitrary and capricious decision and reinstate the game.

Dmitri writes: "WHY was Gary ridculed and insulted for presenting a set of criteria to be used to evaluating whether a variant should be created?"

I am not saying that Gary was ridiculed nor should he have been, but any ridicule he brought upon himself, and he is rapidly losing credibility with his latest so-called 'challenge', which is farcical, and bordering on insane. He is in effect saying, "If you cannot do or demonstrate the nearly impossible, you must admit you are incorrect." But it doesn't matter, since his supposition was totally irrelevant.

You should reread your posts sometimes, Dmitri. You have really gotten brash and condescending! Using a phrase like "those 5 noisemakers", is a strong indication that you are a crazed zealot without regard to diverse opinions! In any case, I guess we have come somewhat farther than Gary's former assertion that there would be just a few "isolated complaints", and there may well be other unhappy folks we have yet to hear from.

If there is any shame, you've more than earned it on your own. You and Gary are top-notch players anyway, and you ordinarily wouldn't be even playing on the 13 boards, so why not just forget what is going on there? If you are really trying to promote pente, you would have better luck going door-to-door than your current methods. I hope you'll pardon this expression, but I think about all you have really managed to do it piss people off!

Lately, I have tried to bide my time and patiently read this board without comment, because I feel my position was made clear some time ago, and so further expounding would be unnecessary. And I will say that harsh commentary has not been limited to your posts; some of the things said by those I agree with in principle have been below board too, but you then seem to assume it is your duty to simply outshout them, whereby you must think that you have convinced everybody that you and Gary alone are absolutely correct and all else must be mistaken.

Is a supposed (or even proven) winning percentage really meaningful if enough players want or demand a particular game type? I've played over 500 games of keryo13 on IYT, winning better than 80% of them, including WINS and LOSSES FROM BOTH SIDES, and I don't recall too many games from either side that were easy to win. (Does this make me an expert? Judge for yourself, although I can assure you that Fencer did not consult me before making his decision to impose the 13 restriction.) Of course, some of the competition was subpar, but that is the whole point. No player will play perfectly all the time, and many players will not play perfectly ANY of the time.

Try this: Suppose a group of users here got together and (without consulting you and maybe even deliberately excluding you) convinced Fencer to eliminate the restriction on the 19 boards. My guess is you would be pretty shocked! And rightly so! Why then, do you so utterly fail to appreciate and comprehend that there are many of us who simply believe that the restriction just is not necessary on the 13 board?