"GERRY":I don't think we have a vote on this, it's Fencer's time, trouble and money, and he can do as he wishes.

"GERRY": all will be revealed tomorrow has previous said

TheCrazyPuppy:  Everyone should just become black brain rooks and there will not be any problems...  :-)

coan.net: Thanks for providing these links, I knew only the first one.
I've just posted the first part of the story, it is mostly related to this BrainKing issue. The second part will contain outcomes and conclusions which can be applied to any site, so it might be more interesting to those who plan to open a web shop or similar business and start to accept PayPal payments.

Fencer: RED TAPE!! I know how you feel. And like you I'm gonna make it awkward for the 'management' by letting people know what they are doing.

Fun

Fencer: This stems back to the Bush era and treating the entire population of America as little children and chastising them by banning all cross border online gambling in 2006.

Whilst I am not defending PayPal, they have to show to the US authorities that they too are observing this law, for which they will need some ridiculous audit trail to show that they have carried out the required due diligence.

However, Americans can still gamble, but they can only lose against other Americans. One might conclude therefore, that the real reason for the US gambling act (other than loss of tax revenues) is that the Americans were losing en masse.

This resulted in a weakening of the US$, as the overseas winners were selling their US$ winnings back into their local currency. In fact the UK£:US$ reached 1:2 in 2007 and since then, the US$ has strengthened to 1:1.5 as we can no longer take their candy.

It would be an interesting statistic on BK to see over time how the following weightings change:
Total Win(Loss) / Number of poker players in America to
Total Win(Loss) / Number of poker players in Europe to
Total Win(Loss) / Number of poker players in Australasia etc.

SL-Mark:

Czuch: I see you fly the American flag
I did not say that all Americans will lose to the rest of the world (as your chip count clearly shows) only that most them will!

SL-Mark: However, Americans can still gamble, but they can only lose against other Americans.



This isnt true.... but I do know what you are saying when it comes to the internet gambling thing... as an American, it is hard to get any money into play, you cant just use the ol credit card. First you have to make a deposit into someone like paypal, then have them put the money into the gambling site for you.... with all the transaction fees etc, we are already losing money before we even get started playing poker

But that does probably have something to do with why paypal can seem like a pain in the butt for someone like fencer, and others

Czuch: Yes, you are right. The act did not specifically ban online gambling, rather it outlawed the financial transactions to gambling providers, which would include direct transactions through credit card etc. (as you state), but also includes transactions through the likes of PayPal.

Hence, as you are experiencing, it is very difficult to get the money into a gambling provider, more so as the overseas providers also check users ISPs to ensure they are not from America.

PayPal is worried that its directors may be arrested if they transact between a US citizen and an online gambling provider. Indeed a fellow scot was arrested in 2006 on this law.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/gambling/How-US-gambling-laws-sent.2794677.jp


Fencer, take note and be careful if you travel to the USA

Fencer: Where do i go to read this post?

"GERRY": http://brainking.info/

Considering that there are prize tournaments, and that prize tournaments can be restricted to paying members only, there's some shred of truth about paying money to play games of skill for money. Although PayPal's emails are most likely triggered by the existence of Poker, and possibly the links to other pay sites from the front page.

I can understand why PayPal is playing it safe. BK probably doesn't make enough money for PayPal to spend a lot of time investigating what exactly it does (and doesn't). I can also understand why BK is dropping PayPal.

AbigailII: Prize tournaments can just as easilly be restricted to non-paying members only. In fact, many are... I bought a subscription and can't enter many prize tournaments because of that
You don't buy a subscription with BK to win more money, but to play more games at once, take more vacation days, etc.

That said, I aggree with everything else you said...

The PayPal gambling policy:
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=gambling


PayPal are having to pay out big time in various law suits. Two examples below:
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-954672.html

http://www.dmnews.com/PayPal-Pays-10M-to-Settle-Online-Gambling-Case/article/81600/


So, they are being ultra cautious now.

It's to bad because this is a great site.But i am not paying anybody on the internet money other then by PayPal

AbigailII: It's not about prize tournaments. What they say (and don't want to discuss about it) is they have to make a payment to play these games, which is simply not true. Prize tournaments are optional. If you make some features restricted to paying members only, it does not mean that it supports their distorted opinion (or can a bureaucrat even have own opinion?).

By the way, PayPal is playing it safe? That's very unlikely. First of all, they admit that games of chance are not a problem but games of skill are. We have games of skill here since the very beginning of BrainKing, why hadn't they bothered me with it 3 years ago, for instance? Second, my account belongs to PayPal Europe, it has nothing to do with U.S. gambling regulations or how they call this nonsense.

It is not a good attitude to find a logic in it. Good thing is that we don't actually need them because about 70% of our income comes through other online payment gateways or wire transfers. But people should know about it before they start to defend PayPal.

This is just a opinion.If a player is that good or that lucky.What are they doing playing board games on a non gambling game site When they can go to sites or real live tournaments That do pay real money to win .Or is it just the glory of being # 1

There is a simple solution to the Pay Pal problem.  Everyone that wants to use paypal just sends the money to me (plus a 5 us dollar handling fee) and I'll make the payment via one of the other BK payment options.  :)  But I'll probably get a letter from Pay Pal asking what business I'm involved in. 

Artful Dodger:
I charge 4.90 though.

Pedro Martínez: 

Pedro Martínez: LOL i think I'll wait for a cheaper rate boy's:)))

"GERRY": okay... $4.75 for me

Pedro Martínez: I offer to make it for nothing, just taking your chips

Who's interested in chips?

gogul: Salt n Vinegar?

gogul: Do you serve ?

Foxy Lady: Foxy fuzzy feelings, anytime

Fencer: same thing happened to me when I tried to upgrade my paypal from personal to a business acct. since I cannot seem to upload a clear enough image of the required documentation, faxing is not their option, mailings never are recieved, my account is now in limbo....they will accept money on my behalf....but I cant get any out!
so I am at least relieved its not just me.

Pay Pal is gone from this site.It is not the end of the world.So let's all enjoy this SITE that Fencer is providing for all of us:)))

martes: .... be specific please?

martes: First put him on block & we can go from there

martes: Impartial? A moderator is supposed to be impartial? How did you come to that conclusion? Did you read the User Agreement at all?

Pedro Martínez: ROFL

martes: No, I didn't. I just saw your name here and thought it would be cool to reply. I didn't even read the one I'm replying to.

martes: It's actually more like a kindergarten. From your part.

martes:

martes: LOL There is alot of them here Just put them on hide on all your board's & put them on block.I just removed all my blocked user's 5 or 6 day's ago & it start's all over again this time when they get blocked it's forever That is the only way you can enjoy this site & meet some very nice people & enjoy playing games:)))

Pedro Martínez: LMAO :)))))

TheCrazyPuppy: you should PM one of the Global Moderators with full details of the issue concerned and copies of all communication so far. The matter will be raised in the Global Moderator Fellowship, discussed and a decision made. The decision is final.


Thats all he needed to hear... the rest is just inflammatory to the situation.... even the most recent shark you posted, how is that helpful to anyone?

TheCrazyPuppy: It only upsets me to see supposedly responsible, helpful people, act irresponsibly and unhelpfully...

TheCrazyPuppy: Yeah, I guess you were, sorry, it seemed like you were also adding a bit of salt to the wound along with your "helpfulness", my bad...

How does one add/request public friends? I just tried to find an option for that but it just does not seem to catch my eye..

puupia: Go to your Friends list and you'll see a tiny lock next to the name of each of your friends.

puupia: on the left side of your page, 5th link under the profile section you will see "Friends", that will send you to the right place

Thanks, that tiny lock icon was not something i was looking for :)

martes:  No worries.  Thanks for the understanding.  ;)