Czuch: hmmm I could say the same about conservative 'entertainment'... especially some of the stuff that got passed on as ads showing your new pres's capability to defend America. Or how he was made to look by repub supporters... maybe they just new he'd win ny a bigger margin unless they tried to make him look like a demon.

It's a funny ol game politics.

(V): again... not talking about entertainment, just the so called 'news'

Artful Dodger: I have, you just don't want to admit it. Czuch sees it.


And in the bottom left corner is Fox News, even if it is an editorial or 'entertainment' program.

Artful Dodger: Fox news. It's a network channel. Run by republicans and Rupert Murdoch a known right wing media tycoon owns it.

Artful Dodger: Nope. I think from what I've seen there are more conservative outlets out there... modern tech makes such things possible.

Artful Dodger: Isn't this a media conversation?

Not that it matters,but I don't see a resolution in sight on this topic anyway,both sides of the discussion are far too dug in

Jim Dandy: Resolution rarely happens.. It's just a debate.

(V): I suppose,talk radio(for instance) is dominated by conservative views in the states,it is what it is.I don't see the point of debating fact,but carry on

You can actually enjoy watching both left and right leaning programs regardless of ones personal views.I'm a liberal,but I can't stand Olbermann,I'm sure there are Republicans who feel the same about Hannity,who cares

Jim Dandy: I'm a liberal,but I can't stand Olbermann,I


That guy is so blatant, he tries to come across as Edward Murrow but he is really just a hack who hates Bush.... he is on tonight to bitch about Bush making up his own legacy.... move on already.... poor libs, what are you all going to complain about now that Obama is in???? Letterman is even still bringing on Tina fey to impersonate Palin, thats all you got boys???

Czuch: And your thoughts on his evil counter balance twin Hannity?

Jim Dandy: Well Hanity, the difference is that hannity tries to promote conservative ideals, maybe to a fault, but its different from Olberman, who doesnt really defend liberal values and ideals (do liberals even have any values and ideals?) as much as he just plays negative on Bush, and again hannity doesnt try to come off as some serious glasses wearing hard news journalist, but oberman really has some fantasy of himself that is far greater than the negative ranting guy that I see!

So, yes, I hate oberman way more than I like hannity, but hannity to me doesnt pretend to be anything than he is, and that is a mouth piece for conservativism

Czuch: I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat.They both appeal to the "frothing at the mouth' factions, in my opinion

Jim Dandy: Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat


Sure he does... the fringe republican is the skin head racist, hannity doesnt speak to that fringe, he speaks to the common core values most average conservatives believe in, yes he points out problems with democrats when they conflict with what conservatives want, but for the most part, you dont hear Olberman speaking about what is good and right for this country except in the form of putting down Bush...

I can speak all day about what I want for this country without once mentioning what a loser I think kennedy or pelosi Et Al are or what losers liberals or democrats are, I dont know Olberman can?

Czuch: can anyone give me an answer to that???
I hear liberals say things like Democrats are for the little guy and republicans are for the big companies... or we need a change of direction for this country... or I am for abortion or all kinds of aloof platitudes like that... but unlike conservatives, I never really hear about over all general types of values or ideals?

You bring up socialism to most liberals and they run away like a fire just started, for that matter, you just bring up the word liberalism, and most people will tell you they are not liberals, no I am just an open minded independent who just happens to always vote democrat, or never votes for any republicans!


Maybe you Jim? You seem like a level minded liberal willing to stand behind your ideals? What are they, really? What do liberals stand for, if its not socialism and bigger government and spreading the wealth etc, what are the ideals of liberals, maybe I will become one too!

Czuch: I'll be honest with you.The premis of your question is a lousy start point for any discussion I'd want to join.But good luck with your tossing of red meat

Jim Dandy: just give me a quick list...

More free market or less?

More quotas or less?

More government control and regulation or less?

Less military or more?

Higher taxes or fewer?

more social programs or less?

get the idea? I dont think liberals have any core ideals, really? I think you are all over the map, one hates war, one hates abortion, one hates big oil companies, one wants a free ride, one wants the government to regulate regulate regulate, one wants.... there really is no one core message, is there?

Conservatives arent fractured like that, You give me a topic and I can formulate my opinions on that topic based around my core ideals, not based on some emotional or feel good bleeding heart, i dont think liberals can say the same, but I would love to be proven wrong?

Czuch: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

anastasia: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

good question.... I dont really know... thats why I generally tend to consider myself a conservative, so I guess i would say that all republicans are conservatives, but all conservatives are not republican, but they are probably not democrats either, more likely some libertarian types, which I probably fall under that more as well.

Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats, and i try to talk about conservatives rather than republicans, like I said, we have skin head tpyes that vote republican, but they are not really conservatives.

Czuch: Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats....
But it seems,at least to me from what you post that you attack Democrats and Liberals in the same breath,it seems,again,to me anywho,that you DO label them as one in the same.

anastasia: I do sometimes, and i regret that.... sometimes its hard for me to separate the two, and to be honest, I am still trying to find out what a liberal is or what a democrat is? Thats why i get into trouble when i generalize too much and paint all libs and dems with a broad brush.... but I think you can do that with conservatives, we all have certain core things in common, and that is a problem fro liberals, because I dont see anything really in common except that you all tend to lean towards socialism, at least compared to conservatives, but I never heard any of you admit that, or anything really, just how you hate big business and you think with your hearts instead of your brains...

Czuch: "except that you all tend to"..."but I never heard any of you" so,now you are generalizing ME into that catagory as well???

anastasia: not you... I think you are a conservative in liberals clothing, you just havent realized it yet... haha that was me too not so many years back....

Just do me a favor... do you ever have the chance to find Neil Bortz on the radio? He is a Libertarian radio talk show host... listen to him everyday at work or wherever for a week or two, and I gaurantee you, you will be saying to yourself all the time, "hey, that makes sense" "yeah, thats logical" "oh I never thought about it that way"... he has a very unique way of taking a topic and just looking at it in a nice logical manner, no hate or rants or the like, just discussion of issues and current events in a thoughtful logical manner, with insights that will open your eyes and make you think about issues like you never did before, and if you can listen to this guy for a couple of weeks and then come back here and tell me you arent leaning more conservative than you ever imagined, i will leave you be forever!

Czuch: forever!!?? ohhh,you are such a tease,you bad boy...I have my opinions on things,unfortunatly,I have 2 people,just like you to choose from when it comes time to vote...NOW,if everyone here would vote for ME next election,I shall run and become President so that I can get a nice blend of real idea into the country..I HATE that people say...Dems are THIS way...or Rep are THAT way...there were a few Rep's that got voted out this past election...not because they were doing a bad job,they weren't,BUT because your precious Bush dicked things up so bad...it was like a hunt just to get ANYONE with the title of Rep out of office...it's politics..it's nasty,I don't agree with the way things are done,but untill you vote me in,there isn't to much I can really do about it

Czuch: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Jim Dandy: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Okay, thanks! But given the lack of choice, is McCain or Obama more conservative? Its hard to believe someone who says they would lean republican if they were more conservative and then voted for the least conservative senator(most liberal) in congress for president?

Czuch: I supported Hillary,but being Canadian I can't vote in the USA

Jim Dandy: LMAO!!

Jim Dandy: ;)

Czuch: Its all about personal responsibility... a conservative spills coffee on themselves and doesnt think about suing and doesnt blame the lawyers and ask for more government regulation of lawyers so that dumb people cant sue for being stupid.

A conservative doesnt get pregnant and use abortion as birth control, a conservative says i messed up and now I will have this child and deal with it, women do have a right to choose, and you chose it when you had unprotected sex.

A conservative doesnt say wha wha wha, there are no white people in that college, you have to let me in just because I am white.

Conservatives dont say "I just was born disadvantaged, its not my faulty, the government owes me something".

You give me an issue, and I will look at it from the perspective of personal responsibility and I will make my choice about that topic based on those conclusions... maybe right maybe wrong, but surly I take a stand and I believe and I act.... I dont see that in liberals, I would have way more respect for a far left nut with an honest belief in their principles, than I do some fence sitting take no stance middle of the road Im no liberal I believe in nothing!

Jim Dandy: Sometimes I find reading or watching both left and right gets you closer to the truth.... You know.. read between the lines and that they take each other to task and keep the other side .. Um, for the lack of a better word.... honest.

(V): Sometimes I find reading or watching both left and right gets you closer to the truth.... You know.. read between the lines and that they take each other to task and keep the other side .. Um, for the lack of a better word.... honest.


Well, thats exactly why there needs to be a fox news out there, liberals love to hate fox news, but the fact is fox is the only right leaning news compared to every single other tv news outlet in America which have a bias to the left!


But it should not have to be like that.... we dont need one station showing a close up of a protest crowd trying to paint a picture of wide dissent, and then another news outlet pointing out how great it is that they have the freedom to dissent, we shouldnt have to watch every news show just to get an accurate picture of a news event!!!!

If news did the job it is supposed to do, then one story would accurately portray the size of the protest, and put it in context for us, maybe compare it to the size of other protests by the other side in the past, and also point out that at least we have given them the opportunity to make this protest possible.... that is the news I want! But because of biases, the so called news outlets dont want us to have any positive thoughts about Iraq....... wouldnt you rather be able to make up you own mind based on all the facts than be lead into your beliefs like sheep based on what some news outlet believes for you???

Czuch: I remember fairly recently seeing O'Reilly feature cross dressers invading a church in San Fran seeking comunion.The story was framed in such a way as to make it much more extreme than the reality of the situation dictated.I can only imagine what a 24/7 Fox viewer thinks of anyone not Republican,and the same for a 24/7 viewer of MSNBC

Jim Dandy: and to you again.... everybody knows that oreily is a conservative and what he does is not considered hard news!


stick with me guys please, I am talking world news tonight, for example... or the cbs evening news, those types of news programing which is supposed to be objective reporting of facts, not opinions or slants on them!

Czuch: Not quite true... Maybe.. Fox is the only dedicated right wing news TV cable channel, but what about digital TV and normal terrestrial? Plus with all the radio stations on the conservative slant, etc... you right wingers do have quite a voice.

Oh we've had positive news on Iraq.. Our British troops will be withdrawn by July next year and re stationed in Afghanistan giving that war a much needed boost in active personnel. I hear the same starting to happen to American troops.

..... Maybe they'll catch ol Bin with the extra troops.

(V): Plus with all the radio stations on the conservative slant, etc... you right wingers do have quite a voice.


how dull do you have to be to keep this up??? I am not saying there are no conservative voices out there, all I am say is that there are some tv outlets that produce what is supposed to be hard news shows, and those are the types of shows I am talking about... strictly tv hard news in america, thats all!

Czuch: (V) thinks the cartoon shows ARE the hard news.....poor fellow

Bernice: Nope I still have my marbles.

Czuch: well I am not. I'm talking all communication types.

(V): okayt nothing to debate then....


you have to remember too though, that you and I are not your average news watcher, but the majority of people actually get most of their news from places like the CBS evening news or the like.... these are the people who make or break an election, and these are the people who see Katie Couric telling us how we should view things in Iraq.... it may not shape your or my opinions, but there are millions of sheeple out there who just go by whatever tom brokaw tells them to go by, and 9 times out of 10 that is slanted by liberal minded news people.

Czuch: I look at the wording, so often it's over dramatised and made bigger just for impact sake rather then accurate reporting.

Over here, they have party political broadcasts and things like question time for politicians to waffle on, so much of the news is kept clean of politics except for news on what they are doing, budget, PM question time (always a good laugh no matter who's in power)

But that's the normal stations.. cable ones can be a little more .... well they are privately owned, but still report to the regulators same as the normal ones.

Tuesday: nobody said I cant afford a membership....and I am not a republican but more a conservative with libertarian views who almost always votes republican.... lol the last election I voted for one democrat and that poor sucker lost!

(V): I agree,it's not wise to make decisions without hearing both sides of an argument

Artful Dodger: http://www.rightwingnews.com/ as an example.
Youtube... various other sites.. what was that one you use to use on IYT and in the debate club for material.

If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.

So I won't name them. I ain't clicking on all those links just to prove something you already know to be true.

TV, Internet, Papers, Radio, Letter, leaflet, posters, books, dvd and some others I can't think of at the mo.

... Much shorter list and more to the point.

(V): If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.


You just dont get it do you????

Its about the hard news, you know, today so and so shot so and so... even Asia admits that all the news about helicopters (or whatever it was) going down all the time in Iraq, was not in sync with the reality she got from her friend who was there! So its not just about semantics IE leaving out that someone is a democrat, but also about the types of stories, IE you hate the war so all your stories are anything negative you can find. Not that the stories arent true (even though often exaggerated) but there is no balance, there were surly some stories in Iraq that pointed out something positive that was happening, but you would never catch MSNBC covering them.

The big problem that I see is that they do shape public opinions, and the point of news is not to impart your own biases into the public! If 9 or 10 news stations were behind the war in Iraq, instead of the other way around, and 9 of 10 stories showed positive results, and always ignored the negative, and always tried to portray the war in a positive light, and they promoted the American people to get behind the war effort, and always told us how great Bush is.... well this war probably would have been over long ago, but because these liberal news media types who hated Bush from day one, and who thought he stole the election, they could not wait to make him look bad at every turn (sometimes they didnt have to try real hard) and that reflected in their news coverage, and that reflected in public opinion and that reflected on why we are still in Iraq... dont worry about helping our war efforts, just so the evil vote stealer bush is mad to look bad!

Czuch: Hard news is just one part of Fox news. Same as with the BBC showing 'hard news' as well as ed's and the like. IE interviews.

Simple.

Artful Dodger: lookie!! I am not the only one that uses "whaa!!" hehehee

Artful Dodger: We are in full agreement on that

Artful Dodger: Name all the conservative outlets for news and views by any media.... how many hundreds are there.

As I said, this is the modern age, TV no longer has the dominance that it use to.