Pente will probably never be as popular as chess, nor, I dare say, even as popular as it once was. It's not as good as a game, nor as interesting. It's even more boring to watch than chess is! Playing them is different. I like to play them both. I know no one that plays Pente in any form. All of my friends can play chess, or atleast have heard of it. Though none of them play it. Not when there's cards to be dealt. If you guys haven't noticed, even chess is dying out in certain ways. Damn computers!
Are you right that there's only 20 masters of Pente? I find this number quite low. As easy as it is to learn Pente, you'd think there'd be lots of real good and master players around. That's one big plus in Pente's and Keryo Pente's side, easy to learn. Mastering them is a whole different thing all together. But it's just putting spots on a lined up board and there's not much excitement in that. A great intellectual challange, yes, but excitement or interest for the casual person, no. Atleast chess has different looking men and sudden movement in its favor.
I think it should be a choice as to having a move restriction or not. Your chess analogies are quite good, but you're comparing apples to oranges. No master of chess will take me serious at regular chess just because I'm one of the best players at a variant of it. So why should Pente be any different between us non-serious players and you champions irregardless of what rules we play by? You guys play and argue amongst yourselves about things that are of little concern to someone that just wants to play the game. You convinced Fencer and now we're stuck with it unless he adds or changes it again. Gary, how come you didn't get him to add the move restriction option that you told me about that the second player places the next three moves and the first player decides if he is going to be the first to move player or make the second player be the first to move player? That version is certainly more fair than the current move restriction standard game, and would be just as much fun. And it could get some play and you'd see if it'd work well or not. The ol' data base you keep plugging would get some data put into it. Why not have it on as well?
If the Official Rules Committee (whoever they happen to be) was to adopt it tomorrow, what would happen to all the players that want to play with the current move restriction? If you're right about Pente being no good even with the move restriction, why are you foisting it upon us? Now we have to play with your guys' imposed version on the 13 X 13 board that neither of you want to play on. Seems unfair and hypocritical to me. I agree with ellieoop, if you don't like the game, don't play the game. If you say the current way is flawed, why force us to play it. You guys seem to view it as an assault to the standard game and are intent on stopping anyone that tries to play a different version.
I am going to play some Keryo Pente on the 19 X 19 board and see how I like the game played that way. Even if I find it to be a better game than the Keryo Pente that I'm used to playing, I don't see why I should be prevented from playing a different way because you don't approve of it. Just imagine if a group of chess masters came to this site and convinced the owners that they shouldn't have any chess variants on it for all the reasons you've given about Pente and Fencer got rid of them. I'm sure there'd be an outpouring of complaints if that happened. I fail to see how this is any different than that. Just because you're the best player in the world at one version of a game doesn't mean I should be forced to play it.
(Note: most of the "you" 's in this posting are meant to be the all-encompassing second person, not to a specific individual except where explicit shown or stated.)
Argomento: Re: Chess and Pente and variant choices
Walter, attempts to reason with you have failed. You and Ellieoop keep repeating that "we have no business removing your CHOICE from you."
LISTEN TO ME, BECAUSE I AM ALSO TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF.
NO ONE IS OBJECTING to your having "choices." If you want to choose from among LEGITIMATE PENTE VARIANTS, I have no objection. But the game you and ellieoop want, without the restriction, IS NOT A VARIANT.
LET ME REP{EAT THAT. IT IS NOT A VARUANT. IT IS JUST AN INCORRECT VERSION OF THE GAME.
WHy can't you get that through your head? In a game, some rules are fixed and some are not. Well, that just happens to be a fixed rule!! That's the end of it!
You and ellieoop have Given NOTHING to support having the game without the restriction. NOTIHNG!!!
let me repeat that, you have given NOTING!!!!!!!!!!!
all you keep saying is that you want choice, but you have made NO EFFORT to justify having THAT PARTICULAR CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!
Why can't you see that????
Please, think about it! One could justify the existence of ANY variant, no matter how bad or illogical, by using yourargument of "I want choices." Well, that doesn't make sense. Ablanket statement that could be used to support ANY awful variant or version of a game is NOT a legitimate argument!
That you repeatedly ignore almost every individual poitn that Gayr and I make is very fristrasting, because we are puting a lot of time and effort into this discusssion, and you clrearly aren't!
You said Gary;s analogy was apples to oranges (theo ne about removing a rook)-- That's a load of crap! Iti s a perfect analogy, and I could use your weak argument to support the existence of that game! I could say "well, if you don't like it, don;t play it, but dont; remove my choice."
This is ASININE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just don't klnow what to say or do anymore, you are not even trying to uderstand anything we are saying.
The matter boils down to this very simple set of facts:
1) Serious pente players always use the restriction, and
2) non-serious players ACNKOWLEDGE that they do not care one way or the other!!
So, who is served by the "variant" without the restriction? NO one!!!!
By the way, I want to show you how terible your analogy is regarding chess variants.
IF a terrible chess variant was created, and people objected to it, would you then say "OH I SEE HOW IT IS YOU WANT TO REMOVE ALL THE CHESS VARIANTS?"
NO, of course not, the person is only trying to remove the one BAD variant. Well, it is the same way with pente.
I support Pente, keyro pente, G-pente, S-pente, D-pente, K-pente, and the ideea of double pente. These are elegitimate variants. The only one I have a prblem with is the no restriction "varuiant" which you cor ellieoop cannot even give ONE reasonable defense for!!!!!
I am SICK AND TRED of hearing about how people's FUN is being deprived of them because the restriction was added to the 13 X 13 boards (actually, veyr few, maybe only one or two people have actuallysaid that, but its being repeated so many times has had the same effect as if a large number had made it).
To say that the game iwth the restriction is any less fun is just without merit, there is notihng to substantiate that claim.
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