BrainKing - Diskusjonsforum (Politics)

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18. januar 2013, 09:52:59

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Emne: Re: Why? If I'm right or wrong, either way it doesn't matter. I've been asking you questions because I didn't understand your position.

Iamon lyme: Quid pro quo I thought being a reason enough.

"Was I not supposed to understand?"

No.. But in explaining your "typing" you explain yourself. Like you've just stated you like to divide ... ie create "legion" according to some interpretations.

"It mattered a thousand years ago, when there was no empirical evidence to prove the universe began to exist. Up until the last century the second statement was hotly debated and the focus of controversy."

I think you ought to realise that this argument about cause and effect dates back to earlier times. The early Christian fathers were certainly 'learned' in such thinking since the likes of Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) postulated such in the FOUR causes, answers to one question.... "why?".

Never heard of the kalam argument before.

18. januar 2013, 21:32:31

Iamon lyme

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Emne: Re: Why? If I'm right or wrong, either way it doesn't matter. I've been asking you questions because I didn't understand your position.

(V): "I think you ought to realise that this argument about cause and effect dates back to earlier times. The early Christian fathers were certainly 'learned' in such thinking since the likes of Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC) postulated such in the FOUR causes, answers to one question.... "why?".

Never heard of the kalam argument before."

I've seen a few thumbnail sketches of the history of this argument. They don't agree on all points, but it's safe to assume it started with a response to Aristotles belief that the universe is eternal. The "kalam" started with early Christian thinkers, then Jewish and Islamic theologians. The one thing these three all have in common is the universe and everything in it being created by (one) God. It was an Islamic scholar who is credited with formalising this argument, hence the Islamic origins of the name (kalam).

But even without the idea of a God, there is still controversy over this because of what a first cause would have to be in order for a universe to arise from nothing. Aristotles eternal universe is equivalent to our steady state universe theory, and the creation story is equivalent to the big bang theory. The debate between a steady state universe and the big bang was hotly debated for the same reason the kalam was debated... one points towards the existence of a God, the other points away from the universe needing a God.