(V): Being elected has nothing to do with doing the right thing, unless you now have to agree with everything Bush did since he was elected, Gates was stolen from by the U.S. government and individual states governments

Vikings: I can disagree with policy without saying someone is stealing.

And Gates was stolen from... yet over here we find in respect he's been stealing (to use your phrase) though in broad daylight from consumers!!

And btw... I was talking not about judges, why change the subject?

(V): First of all it was judges that took his money, they weren't elected so there was no change in subject,

secondly Gates made a consumer product people voluntarily purchased it, then the government took his money because people are too lazy to download firefox. or buy apple
He stole from nobody, nobody had to buy from him

Vikings: we were talking about government, not judges....

Windows is not IE!! You'll agree 99%+ PC's (I allow for error) are sold with windows installed.. even the cashpoints and shop tills use windows.

(V): judges are 1/3 of the government acting like 1/2 of the government.
who forced you to buy it?

Vikings: It came with the machine, I had no option not to purchase the machine without windows as most do not.

Anyway... the subject was the little people, part of the big businesses. Or the little people, those who invest their life savings in what everyone says is a safe bet. It's not their fault a big business makes a mess of things, so why should all those normal, everyday people loose out? Why should they loose everything they spent a life building??

I've seen no-one here come up with an answer to that, just diversion and changing subjects.

(V): no body forced you to buy it, you could have bought an apple if you didn't want it.
The subject originally was big business going bankrupt and it evolved into trickle down economics

Vikings: I didn't want an apple, I wanted a PC... but with apple is the OS bundled?

No.... we were discussing today the little people.

(V): No this thread started with your responding to

gogul: want the big fishes to starve so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so much. Well high politics, justice and the big corporations, soon as it implodes this will be a real relief for the people.

by the way I want a ford because the wheel base suits me but I don't want a ford engine, who do I contact to sue

Czuch: I'm a human being, not a liberal. It would help if you remember that. As I said stereotyping me as a liberal will not work.

Do I have to repeat myself on that??

(V):  it's not a stereotype, it's a category. 

Artful Dodger: I find categorising people never works. It's like trying to describe God with words.... how do you describe something that IS???

(V): Well, you're not God so that comparison is weak.   And a liberal IS a category.  We all fit into some slot with respect to our political views and with respect to our philosophy of life. 

There's a difference between a category and stereotyping.   Nothing wrong with identifying categories. 

Artful Dodger: WE are all God. Everything IS God.

"We all fit into some slot with respect to our political views and with respect to our philosophy of life."

Ohhhhhhh no we don't!!

(V):  Yes.  Even you fit into a slot of some kind.  It's what defines you and your way of viewing the world.  Not necessarily a rigid definition, but a definition nonetheless.  I'm a conservative thinker.  That ought to give you some idea of my political leanings and view of life.  Not every detail, but to some degree.   Some attitudes are definitely characteristic of the left, some of  the right.  Some fall in the middle.  

Artful Dodger: And being loose it is never accurate. period.

(V):  It doesn't have to be accurate.  But in general, it's safe to say that you lean on the liberal side of politics and on moral authority.  My leanings are much more conservative. 

Artful Dodger: Wrong. I am not liberal. I will not repeat myself again!!

(V): You can claim to be a box turtle for all I care. That's not the point. Much of your leanings are consistent with the leanings of the liberal establishment. You're religious views for example, are very liberal.

So there.

Artful Dodger: No... They are not liberal, they are just pre doctrine.

So there.

(V): ....I missed a lot here....

Are you black? Is it a stereotype to call you a black or a category? Its just what you are.... and if your views align themselves with liberalism, then you are a liberal

Czuch: There are expressions and there are labels.

What is a liberal Czuch? Parties vary from country to country and from day to day in the political world.

eg Maggie set up the expenses system that our MP's have been abusing. Labour despite being in power for many years has not sought to reverse such a decision, and now all parties MP's are saying it's bad and they are sorry... but it was within the rules.

Figure it!!

(V): Now looking back over the last 100 posts or more, I can see why its so difficult to debate with you... you are all over the map, you never seem to stay on topic, I still havent found where you answered my question about trickle down economics?

I wont even use the word liberal.... but many people who have debated with me about how trickle down economics doesnt work, are now the same people who tell me that you have to keep the big dogs alive to protect the little dogs.... do you see any contradiction there?

Czuch: Well maybe you were looking to hard and missing my answers. I mean I studied economics at school... did you? Is your ed system the same, do you get taught the same history??

Nahhhhhhhh

(V): See... I ask you about trickle down economics and you start talking about education?

Czuch: I'm not..... You are just thinking I am. That's your fault not mine.

(V): Then where is your answer about trickle down economics? Its a simple question, yes you believe in and like the concept, or no you think it is a faulty economic policy?

Czuch: Trickle down..... Not good, it didn't work for Ronald Raygun

Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.

(V): Trickle down..... Not good




Okay, now we are getting somewhere..... if trickle down economics is not good, it doesnt work, then why is it, in your opinion, something that will work in a bail out situation?

Czuch: it's the reasons why it's not good. I gave a hint by referring back to Pres Raygun.

Again... it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.

and Btw.. if regs are in place no-one needs to micro manage from the government. As the auditors/accountants/lawyers by LAW will do it as part of the yearly accounts.

Do you understand that?

(V): it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.


Well the problem I see with your way, is that now you bring too much subjectivity to the equation.

Who then decides what is too high or too low, maybe it is someone you agree with or maybe it is not anyway, its always a subjective call made by fallible and mortal humans, and you may like the decisions they are making right now, but how do you guarantee that will remain as such?

(V): Anywho... my only point was originally, that when I used to complain that you cant take from the rich to give to the poor because we need the rich to create jobs for the poor, all I heard from you and other like minded people was how wrong I was, that trickle down was all hog wash..... and now all I hear from you is how we cant let the big guys go down, because it will effect all of the poor people who make a living because of these big guys!


Its all a bunch of contradictory crap from you all... saying one thing when it conveniences you and saying the exact opposite now, because it conveniences you now!

Czuch: I'm not others.. I'm just me. And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.

Don't you know the difference

(V): And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.




R u kidding me?? really???

Thats exactly what trickle down is.... when big companies support smaller companies who support their employees who again support other small businesses... and if the big guy falls, so too does the rest of them!


That is exactly what trickle down is!!!!!

and when Raygun was doing it, you said it was bogus, but now when bam is at it, well all of a sudden you think it is the best economic policy ever invented?????

Czuch:

you are all over the map,

could that be called evasive action?</i>

Czuch: Study economics, you might see why I see a difference.

... It'll end all those question marks

Czuch:  Trickle down usually means trickle on.

Tuesday: So u 2 are not in favor of bailouts for the big dawgs because if they dont the little dawg will die too?

(V): Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.


So, boards are bad, but you trust some government bean counter to make better choices for us then? ...and what if the bean counter is Bush, for example, and has his head in the butts of oil? Then do you still want the government to make the decisions about where to use trickle down and where to not use it?

You just get into too much trouble when you start trying to micro manage everything... of course the free market has its pitfalls.... like you said with a democracy, its only the best we have found so far, but I dont see anything that tells me that a free market economy isnt the best we have so far, or that a socialized, micro managed economy is any better

It's in reference to those who just work for a living,

really??

well what do you call people who bludge off society and live off the Govt?.......Tiny wee people?

Bernice: Bludge?? Those that are genuine, or those that are not? Those that are not get caught over here... But that are genuine....

... let's just say one lady looking after 3 kids found out that red tape had made her lose out for several years over a 'tick' in a small print box. Even though nowadays what she missed out on is automatically included. It's only because she was inspected that she found out what she was missing out on.

... The inspector said she deserved all the help she was due for the job she had to do.

You see you can be unemployed and still be working hard. Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids?

(V): Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids

of course parents work in looking after kids......BUT....why cant the "bludgers" do what the average man- woman does that has a family.....go to work, earn money and stop bludging off the system.....there is way too much of it...

Bernice: I don't know... I can't talk for everyone or know everyone... do you??

And btw..... If you are against state benefits then I suppose you are against state pensions??

If you are.... then are you for the re-introduction of work houses?

Artful Dodger:  What is the difference between a strereotype & a category?

Ferris Bueller: stereotypically I categorize everything

Bernice: "stereotypically I categorize everything"

Perfect!!!

Ferris Bueller: Good question.

Librarian a category of a certain type of job. From that there are sub categories.

All librarians are old ladies with funny glasses that say, "shhhhh" a lot." is a stereotype.
The term "stereotype" is itself a category.

Things that are heavy = a particular category of things.
All fat people eat potato chips is a stereotype.

A category is a division of classes of things (small, large etc) It's a classification - a group of a particular kind.

A stereotype is the characteristics assigned or generally associated with a particular group. Here there is a bit of a crossover as certain "categories" of groups (liberals) could be given stereotypical characteristics.

But, to say someone is a liberal isn't the same as saying someone IS liberal. The first identifies the category, the second describes the person (and perhaps stereotypes them in doing so).

All liberals have a philosophical leaning that differs in ways from conservative philosophy. Otherwise they'd both be liberals or conservative. A liberal can be a fiscal conservative but a social liberal. (same is true of a conservative - conservative on finances, liberal on views towards social issues).

A stereotype would be to say all liberals are fiscally irresponsible. All religious nuts are conservative. etc