puupia: Im not sure if this is the answer to help... but most poker games the house takes a cut of every pot, that does take back some money off the table, but I am not sure if it would really matter or not?

Czuch: Yes it will help. On daily basis house should collect rake the same amount it inserts new chips into the game. Of course there already is a lot of money and over long period of time the best players will get large portions of it. But if the overall amount of money in the system does not increase, also the money a single player can have is limited.

Another option to keep the game interesting would be to reset everyones chips back to 1000 for example weekly. At the time of the reset the player with most chips would be announced the weekly champion. And after resetting the chips everyone could compete at same level again.

puupia: Another option to keep the game interesting would be to reset everyones chips back to 1000 for example weekly. At the time of the reset the player with most chips would be announced the weekly champion. And after resetting the chips everyone could compete at same level again.


I am sure I could never support this idea....

Czuch: One problem I see with that idea is that people will play foolishly with their money if they know it will be reset later anyway.... play money already makes poker play different from the real thing, and resetting money would only make it worse.

I don't like the idea of regular resets of money either (other then the one after the testing is done because of some bugs)

But as I've mentioned before, I like the idea of awards & such for poker players (suggest before about possible "buying" awards - things that can be displayed on your profile & such) - "buying" them, as in turning in chips for them is a way to take some chips "off" the "market" so to speak.

But also the idea brought on another one - maybe weekly, there There should be "stats" of sorts, like:

Top Chip holder (once some people gain, this list would not change much) (along with a how long they have held a position)

Top Gainers (%) for the week

Top losers (%) for the week
etc.....

Of course I like statistics....

coan.net: But if there are no "regular resets" of chips, are you suggesting that once you use up your 1000 chips, you can never play poker again? Seems to me the number of potential opponents will dwindle down to the point where there are only a few people playing.

rod03801: I dont think that is what he is suggesting.... when we are talking about resets, we mean that everyone be set back to a set number, like $1,000, and basically starting over.

But, people will always be able to get a new $1000 when they run out, but only once a day, which helps prevent people from just taking their $1000 and going all in pre flop, and if they lose they just go back get more money and try it again until they get lucky.... you have to have some sort of way to make free play money hold some sort of value, or the game integrity is really compromised (more than it already is using play money anyway)

coan.net: Maybe we could trade poker money for brains, or even a new membership, say 1 million poker money for a 6 month rook?

rod03801: Like Czuch said, some are saying to stop people from getting 1 million chips, reset everyone back to 1,000 chips every so often to restart everyone - that I'm against. (Players being about to get some chips daily so they can play daily - I'm all for that - and should be a goal to at least allow some to play at least once a day.)

Trading chips for Brains (or anything worth money) - I don't like that idea since it would encourage cheating. My opinion is to keep it worth nothing - with awards or ribbons or something as just "decoration" - making it something cool that people want to get to be "ahead", but not really worth anything of value other then respect & bragging rights.

coan.net: Good point about the cheating..... I think they will do that even if its just for bragging rights too

Czuch: Well there are some who currently do that just for ratings - and even though that bugs it, I think it is at a minimum of who does that (since there really is not point.) Yea, there will always be some to do it just because they feel they can or something.... but when there is nothing real at stake, then I believe cheating is kept to a minimum.

coan.net: How come no pot limit games?

coan.net: Also, it looks like the fellowship tables are no different from the public ones?

Also, are pawns able to play poker?

Czuch: Why no pot limit tables: Fencer hasn't programmed that yet

Fellowship Tables - Same as above - I would guess it would be like "stairs" are - where the public tables are limited to a few, but fellowships at some point can make their own (again, only a guess)

Pawns - Yes, they are able to play poker

Czuch: Pot limit version is not implemented yet and fellowship tables are not supported either. Everything will be added soon.

Thanks everyone for valuable comments and suggestions. I have been already thinking of a reward system and I think that Brains could be used in some way as well. All details will be closely described soon when the remaining bugs (flush comparation etc.) are fixed.

Speaking of bugs, I would like to clarify the kicker card problem because I was searching the web for a proper definition and some sources say that a kicker card must be always taken from player's hand (hole cards), while others describe a kicker as the highest unused card, no matter if it belongs to the table cards or not.

Currently, we use the first approach. But if there is a reliable and official source which proves that a kicker card can be any card (not used in the winning combination), I would like to know about it.

Fencer: I'm not a big poker player, but how I understand Texas Hold'em..

It is the best 5 cards (no matter if from table or hand.) that makes a hand.

Fencer: I will search as well for something more official too..... but my understanding has always been that a kicker has to be any one of the five cards used in the hand.... but not one that makes up the hand.... for example, if we tie a hand with 2 pairs KK and QQ, then the next highest card is the kicker, if that card comes from someones hole cards, then they win the hand, if it comes from the board cards then they both share the same kicker and the hand is a tie and a split pot....

Fencer: So in the example of the flush, whomever has the highest spade in their hand is the winner, unless there are 5 spades all on the board that are higher than any in someones hand.... then it is again a tie and split pot

Fencer, I think the creation of real-time, multi-player games is kinda cool. I hope my ideas and suggestions were not obscured by too many posts. This forum seems quite active. But, I think I am done here at the "Poker Tables". If I see an announcement about changes/fixes, I will be happy to come check them out again. Here are my final notes:

1. Wealthy players...This is not an issue of players having too many chips, if there is a max buy in at the tables. In fact, its what will keep players coming back. that drive to have the most chips or reach the next award level.

2. Speed...As I play the tables, it seems really "laggy" most of the time. When I make a choice, like clicking the "Call" button, there is too long of a delay when I see confirmation.

3. Graphics...I hope the graphics improve before you go "Live" with the game. Even if you just added a nice background image. Another suggestion is to get rid of the Square border around the players portraits. Or give a nice background...There is just to much "White Space".

4. Chips...When people place bets and those bets go to the pot (or Side Pot), Show a picture of chips along with the count. Set the font style of the chip count so it can have a transparent background, but still be easily seen againt the table image.

5. Seats...When you sit at a table, the whole table is re-drawn so you are always at the bottom. I don't like this. I think your portrait should sit where you click. Of course, this can be an option.

6. Time-out Players...I really think the way this is handled will affect how many long-term players there are. It should NEVER be possible for a timed-out player to win the pot! Other players should NEVER have to endure multiple, back to back timeouts from a player. I understand not wanting to be too harsh to players that legitimately have issues...but forcing a fold and dealing them out of subsequent hands (until that player takes some action) is not too harsh.

7. Expanded games...I hope this leads to other card games, like Hearts and Pinochle. There are many free poker (fake money) sites out there with AWESOME interfaces. It will be hard to compete against them. There are sites with good Hearts games. But, I have yet to find a sight with a good feature-rich Pinochle game. In fact, the only two reasons I play poker on THIS site is to help provide suggestions for you and because (at work), the other sites are blocked.

Fencer: One more...as this came in while I was typing.

The internet, itself, is not a good source for rules. You'll find lots of differing "opinions". Even Wiki's are subject to opinions.

I suggest finding rules from a specific organization. I think a good source for rules, such as how to determine kicker, would be from the "World Series of Poker".

Summertop: I think timed out players are folded already?

I have yet to have any lag problems, do you use firefox?

I know some sites do offer the option to view where you sit from the bottom, or where you actually are, it should be easy to implement this at some point, I would assume.

same with most of the other ideas, i would guess that as time goes on, there will be continual upgrades, but you have to start somewhere, it cannot be all perfect before it is tested.

emelin: I dont agree completely with this one, they say that if the board has a K kicker, for example, and one player also has a K kicker in their hand, the player with the one in their hand wins.

I say it is still a split pot tie, that a kicker in ones hand is no different from a kicker that comes from the board....

Czuch: This is for texas hold em.... there are other variations of texas hold em where you have to use both cards from your hand or one card and other variations like that, but we are talking only about traditional texas hold em

Summertop: Since my Pocket PC is not the best option to write long texts, I will respond to your points later today. Meanwhile, I would like to say that we do not want to compete with other poker sites and our goal is not to create the best possible poker game ever. Take it as a new addition to this site, not as a new trend which should change the style of BrainKing at all.
Furhermore, as I was receiving reactions of other users, the majority of them does not care if the graphics is outstanding or not. The playability is always more important and although I definitely plan to improve the poker graphics in the future, it is not the highest priority task (and never will be).

More details later.

oh yeah... one thing I just now remembered.....

There should only be a max of three raises in any one betting round, I think I remember seeing people raise and re raise until nobody wanted to raise anymore.....

Czuch: Here is what i found, I stand corrected...

10. In limit hold em, there will be a max limit of a bet, a raise, a reraise, and another reraise. When only two players are involved in a hand this betting "cap" does not apply.


It seems that these raise rules dont apply to no limit games though

new">http://brainking.com/en/ShowFellowship?fid=841
new fellowship for tips explinations and tournies when available

Bwild: There was a problem with your link. Here is the corrected one.
Poker Kings

thanks rod

Czuch: It works for limit games. There is no limit at no limit ones, of course.

emelin: Thank you, it's clear now. And what happens if two players share the same pair (as the winning combination) and the same kicker as well? Would the second and third kicker card come to a consideration?

Fencer: It would be the best 5 cards.

If two players "tie" with the same top 2 cards, then the 3rd card is looked at. (for example, both of a pair of Kings - if one has a queen high, the other a 10 - queen high wins.

If two players "tie" with the same top 3 cards, then it looks at the forth.

If two players "tie" with the same top 4 cards, then it looks at the fifth.

If two players "tie" with all 5 cards - then it is tied (as I understand it, you should look no further then the top 5 cards)

I think throwing the word "kicker" in there is just confusing. Out of the 7 cards (5 on the table, 2 in the hand) - BEST 5 cards out of those 7. Only those 5 cards each person makes a hand out of counts.

Simple as that - best 5 card hand.

Fencer: I agree that playability is more important than pretty graphics. I'm just giving my impressions, suggestions, and ideas. I won't be offended or leave Brainking over them. For the price, this is a great site with or without the Poker tables.

As for a more lengthy response, I would love to see it. But don't stress it. I know how much time running a site like this can take.

Need a all in button on the no limit games

coan.net: If you are sure about it, it will be implemented this way.

Summertop: Later. I will not forget.

Fencer: Well i hope someone can back me up on it. (since I'm pretty sure, but I know I'm not an expert card player and could be missing something)

That is how I have always played - the cards of the table of "shared". So using those 5 cards, and the 2 in my hand - you make the best 5 card hand. (and each other player does the same)

Best 5 card hand wins. So if you have a pair, you take the pair & the next 3 highest cards and ignore the other 2 to make the best 5 card hand........I've never worried about what it was called (kicker and such).

coan.net: Well that is how we play our local league

"Error, unable to play a sound"

has the sound still got bugs?

coan.net: Yes thats exactly how it works. Every player makes best possible 5 card hand out of the 7 cards available to them. It does not matter if the cards are your private hole card or community cards on table.

For example, player A has A2 and player B AJ

Cards on board AK495 -> B wins, Both have pair of aces and King, J decides for B

If board cards are A8992 -> B wins again, both have pairs of aces and nines, and fifth card is J vs. 8. The pair of deuces does not help playerA at all. There's no such thing as three pairs :)

AQ299 -> split pot, both have same best hand, AA99Q. Deuces do not help A this time either.

Of course the examples assume theres no flushes.

Fencer: It sounds correct to me as well.... just remember... flushes go through all 5 cards too.

Czuch: yes, that's the way itfor best hands,i and if a flush is on the table, person with the next highest flush card in their hand wins.

ellieoop: If the card in hand is high enough :) If the board is AQJ97 and one player has 54 and another player 62 ( all of the cards same suite) the pot will be split. Only 8, 10 or K of that suite would improve on the flush already on the table.

Fencer: thanks

coan.net: You know BBW, since you created the poker tables, you can easily go back in and add an upper limit in the description for each table, it doesnt actually have to be coded, it can be player enforced.


Something like;

min $1000 max $2000

min $1000 max $5000

min $5000 max $10000

min $10000 max $20000

Min $50000 max $100000

Czuch: It can be player enforced to a certain extent, but you have to keep in mind that the max is only a max buy-in and a player may go over that amount after winning without any consequences.