The Usurper: Not only are we not safe, we are already enslaved.

So are they fighting for an end game, or have they already achieved it?

If they already have us, why not put the hammer down and get it over with already?

Take us out of our misery already...

Czuch: "I still want to hear V explain to me how it is okay to regulate banks because they took our money, but we are not allowed to regulate individuals who take our welfare? IE drug tests, or why not even regulating their reproduction as well?"

I'm afraid both the handouts (to rich & poor) & the regulations (of banks & welfare recipients) rather prove we are in a collectivist society. And I'm afraid one can't approve of either without being a collectivist. Not only are we not safe, we are already enslaved. The chains are just not so apparent yet in everyone's lives.

Czuch: "If this is true, we are actually in a good place, with half liberals and half conservatives, both fighting against the others, actually keeping either one from completing their objectives!!!!"

Unfortunately, the so-called Conservatives & so-called Liberals are not really competing. Thay are on the same side and the enemy is YOU.

That's the point I am making that somehow you continually fail to acknowledge, let alone deny.

I still want to hear V explain to me how it is okay to regulate banks because they took our money, but we are not allowed to regulate individuals who take our welfare? IE drug tests, or why not even regulating their reproduction as well?

The Usurper: Okay, I think I got it now....

Conservatives want us to be a dictatorship and are trying to get there through dominance and power....

and liberals want us to be a dictatorship and are trying to get there by making us so weak we wont have any fight left to stop it....


If this is true, we are actually in a good place, with half liberals and half conservatives, both fighting against the others, actually keeping either one from completing their objectives!!!!

The Usurper: Well, most dictatorships rise not from a strong democracy, but from splintered and poor people....

I know, you are going to say that is their first objective, to make us so weak we will give up our freedom to be saved at any cost, and they are so smart, they are actually counting on other smart people to help them accomplish this....

its like all the rest of your conspiracies (or are they all just one big one tied together?)

Its like saying there was a conspiracy by the founders of the US to make us a republic....

(V): Sure, but what I mean is that if the anti-missile system is efficient as it should be, the EMP bomb would not even come close. But I might be wrong in this, as I'm no "bomb expert". :)

(V): I can imagine that could be the impression you had. I had quite the opposite feeling. The problem lies with the interpreters and translators in Strasbourg and Brussels. :)

Pedro Martínez: You don't need to. the whole idea of an EMP bomb is that it is detonated high up so the effect is as widespread as possible.

(V): True, but I guess it would not be so easy to deliver such EMP bomb to the radar site.

Pedro Martínez: So did I... and quite frankly with both going on it was difficult to make out what he was saying... He ummmmmd and rrrrrrdd and was so confused over his words I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about. I think he just had a bad day and was waffling on as he was expected to speak.

(V): I watched the speech live, and that was exactly what he said. Of course, some of his fellow partymen (like Vondra) tried to downplay the meaning of his words, being shocked by their openness and afraid of the consequences. And by the way, I don't see it as a blunder at all. That's just a wish of the socialists.

Pedro Martínez: I don't see the point of an anti missile radar system, unless it is EMP proof. And technically to destroy a company.. or at least cripple it that it would collapse on itself... One high up EMP bomb will do the trick.

Czuch: Some bunkhouses are actually being built here for operators of the American anti-missile radar, the construction of which will soon begin as well, so I'm sure you'd be more than welcome there. If you insist on a bunkhouse, that is...:)))

Czuch: "I mean, under a dictatorship, very few people win, so why would so many be in conspiracy to help make a dictatorship, if they have no benefits from it?"

By this reasoning, any dictatorship would be ruled out, wouldn't it? But we know from the historical record, and from present conditions, that dictatorships are quite common.

Clearly, those who conspire to establish dictatorship DO receive benefits from it, or at the very least, believe they will. Consider Nazi Germany. To be an SS Officer was to benefit. To be a scientist was to benefit. To be a Nazi propagandist was to benefit. To be a member of the ruling Party was to benefit. There are many benefits to participating in a dictatorship, provided one has no qualms & is able not only to willingly sacrifice his own freedom but also willing to sacrifice and/or expunge the freedoms of others.

GoodTimeCharlie: One thing to add about recapturing the Centers of Power as essential to any effective strategy, consider this:

The American Revolution was won by strength of arms. However, our Founding Fathers & like-minded Patriots controlled the centers of power in America, the local governments, the newspapers, the businesses...in short, they were in position to LEAD the masses in revolt against England. This was not a so-called Marxist type of revolution, from the bottom up. (Which actually is a misnomer, since it is always elites leading the pack & stirring the masses in Marxist revolutions also) It was revolution by the leadership of American society, who skillfully brought the people to its Cause.

The chief distinction of the American revolutionists is the worthiness of their great Cause. It was the cause of Liberty based on the model of Individualism, i.e., rights are inherent to the individual, governments are secondary, deriving authority only by the informed consent of the governed, and established for the minimal purpose of protecting the rights of the individual, etc.

But, again, without first controlling the power centers, the revolution would have been impossible or would have devolved into anarchy followed by despotism.

The Usurper: My position is not as a neo con, its just that they represent me better than the liberals do.


What i dont yet understand, that if as you claim, the ultimate goal of all sides is a global dictatorship, then who actually wins and who loses?

I mean, under a dictatorship, very few people win, so why would so many be in conspiracy to help make a dictatorship, if they have no benefits from it?

The Usurper: A Ghandi style revolution.

Czuch: Until you recognize that the Neo-Cons are just as Big Government & Socialist as the Democrats, you don't have much of a leg to stand on. People on both sides of the political spectrum need to recognize they've been conned & psychologically programmed...and to come clean, learn the process & break free of the illusion of opposites. I don't see any evidence to date that you recognize the inconsistency of your position.

GoodTimeCharlie: "and so what is your response? what is your solution to this?should the masses arm themselves and attack?"

That is hardly a viable alternative, in my opinion. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it would result in the mask being taken off and the institution of open dictatorship. Some globalists might be itching for this opportunity. It may be a last resort if the jackboots start showing up at our doorsteps...which is why the 2nd Amendment is so important.

It took them (the elite conspirators) over a hundred years in the West to implement their plan & get this far...and the plan was, take over & dominate the CENTERS OF POWER incrementally, and through the passage of laws gradually, in order to undermine nations & bring about a global order in a kind of bloodless coup based on the model of collectivism. Consider, in America, the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a major branch of this conspiracy. About 80% of the power positions in America are held by CFR members: Cabinet members, Presidents & Vice Presidents, Senators, leaders of Think Tanks & Non-Profit Organizations, owners of major media including ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, the New York Times, Time Magazine, the Washington Post, etc., presidents of Universities, leaders of the Military & CIA, and the list goes on. In this way, far less than 1% of the population controls domestic & foreign policy. This plan has been very well designed & implemented.

So, to reverse the process, a plan equally well-considered & effective must be devised. It must be aimed, not at violent revolution, but at recapturing the centers of power by Individualists...and it will take a very long time. This battle won't be won in our lifetimes. It may not be won at all. But it is the only battle worth fighting, if we consider the future important. And if we lose, our children & grandchildren will inherit a world gone to hell, a technological feudalism far more oppressive than any totalitarianism the world has yet known.

For those interested in making a difference, I highly recommend checking out, thoroughly, the Freedom Force International website, which is an organization being designed precisely to fight this war against the collectivists in a long-term struggle. And it has a great deal of information & educative material to clarify the issues at stake. I haven't joined yet, and won't do so until I've thoroughly researched it & verify that I fully agree with its philosophy & approach. But to the extent that I have researched so far, I am strongly leaning that way.

http://www.freedom-force.org/

In here is some truth..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8t7o8S8Bxw

Czuch: No, that is just one thing I enjoy to do. It is useful sometimes, especially when dealing with officialdom.. It's so nice to watch them squirm after they have tried to be less then honest.

Ya know.. that little niggle.. "something stinks/is wrong here"

Like one time I was told that one office could not communicate with another office 400 miles away..... my reply.. "what!! You've never heard of the postal service? ..... the bloke hung up.

(V): your agenda is to seek the truth wherever it is to be found...

Czuch: .. I'm not everyone. I'm just one part of the human race. Generalisation and assumption based on pre determined values of what a person is based on a label.... Is never accurate.

Especially when you've never actually met the person. It's good to see.

(V): Thats what everyone says.....

Artful Dodger: ......... tell me then, if you think I have one... what do you think it is. I'll bet ya 1000 chips ya wrong.

Artful Dodger: hahahahaha

Artful Dodger:

(V):   Everybody has an agenda.  Even you. 

GoodTimeCharlie: Use your mind, it being yours, learn how to trust your instincts and intuition and be yourself.

Same way people escaped all the other 'dictatorships' (whether government or religion based) through out the years.

.... And when you can.. pass it on.

Pedro Martínez:

"The Czech EU Presidency rejected reports yesterday (25 March) that Prime Minister Mirek Topolánek had referred to US stimulus policy as the "way to hell", saying he had been misunderstood. ......... "No, he didn't say that," Czech Deputy Prime Minister Alexandr Vondra told a news conference after Topolánek's speech to the European Parliament on Wednesday (25 March).

...... A Czech presidency spokesman said Topolánek, speaking through an interpreter, had noted the United States was taking strong fiscal action to combat the economic crisis. Topolánek then said the European Union would be on the "way to hell" if it boosted its own fiscal spending, the spokesman said.

Blunder

The Czech EU presidency website published a summary of his statement, however, which sounds quite different from the original speech made at a European Parliament plenary session in Strasbourg.

Czech journalists confirmed that European Parliament translators were not to blame. Their delivery of Topolánek's words was quoted by the international press in the following terms:

"The US Treasury secretary talks about permanent action and we, at our spring council, were quite alarmed at that [...] The US is repeating mistakes from the 1930s, such as wide-ranging stimuluses, protectionist tendencies and appeals, the 'Buy American' campaign, and so on," he told the Parliament session in Strasbourg. "All these steps, their combination and their permanency, are the road to hell."

It is not the first time that Topolánek made a blunder in the European Parliament. Presenting the Czech EU Presidency's priorities in January, the prime minister caused an outcry when he suggested that the EU's current Nice Treaty was better than the Lisbon Treaty, which the Union's leaders are struggling to push through."
http://www.euractiv.com/en/opinion/czech-us-remarks-complicate-obama-prague-visit/article-180683?Ref=RSS

**********
The moral of this story is... don't believe all the hype when those reporting a matter have an agenda.

Please give a solution to avoid the trap and global enslavement

The Usurper: and so what is your response? what is your solution to this?should the masses arm themselves and attack?

You give money to banks, that gives you the right to tell them what they can do with it....

now you have to tell me why we cant drug test welfare recipients too????

cant wait to listen to the hypocritical rationals against this one....

Pedro Martínez: Thanks for that Pedro.... now I like your country even better than yesterday, do you have a bunk house for me to live for awhile?

The Globalists! They've succeeded once again in getting people to bicker about an issue, however worthy in itself, which nevertheless distracts from the larger issues at play. This is what the Left & Right are FOR! :o)

AD said: "When the level of outrage is greater than the level of the offense, something else is at play."

I would only change it to say: "When the level of outrage is greater & more prolonged than the offense necessitates (no matter how inherently offensive), something else is at play."

He is right. Something else is at play. So what is going on with the media coverage of this issue? It is called suckering people into a relative non-issue which they fall for time & time again, hook, line & sinker, while the web of world enslavement is laid quietly strand upon strand.

Does anyone here think his/her country is immune, or whose leaders are not involved, or whose people are too enlightened, to fall into this global trap?

You are mistaken. Time to smell the coffee.

Artful Dodger: sounds like australia to me but we had money to get us thru some of the bad times, whereas england had sweet fanny adams. God help us if things get much worse LOL.......

In my opinion they should stop the dole to the lazy b's who are living off the Govt and make them survive as they did before all the welfare was introduced. How would the younger ones survive a depression on nothing as their forefathers did.

I don't know much about the politics of Britain nor do I fully understand their economic problems, but this speech by Daniel Hannan, MEP for South East England, sure sounds like it could be given in the US Congress.  Hannan addresses Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister druing his visit to the European Parlament.  Check it out.

Wouldn't it be great if someone in the US Congress had the smarts to deliver a speech like this to the over-spending of our US President?!    

Czuch: That's not him, Chuck. :) The guy who's the avid fighter against the global warming hoax is Václav Klaus, the Czech President.

Pedro Martínez: I have always liked that Czech PM... he isnt a big fan of the global warming scare tactics either, I dont think?

hahaha Now I might have one place I can like to move to if/when I dont like it here anymore (if they will take me)

Pedro Martínez: He's absolutely right too!

Warning! Quote follows! Read at your own risk!

"The US economic policy is the road to hell."
(Mirek Topolánek, Czech Prime Minister and EU President)

Finally someone who said it loud.

Artful Dodger: K sorry

Czuch: V and I were talking about something different. Dick Morris dropped the "retarded" word.

Jim Dandy: Yes, it was on the Fox News Channel. But not an argument over semantics. Over accuracy.

(V): he said..."I'm a little retarded about this".

NO... he said something like... " I felt like i should be in special olympics".... nothing none of us has not ever said before, and he laughed about it, as we all have done before, but he is president, and he is not a professional comedian... how you can complain about a comedy show parody about the canadian army, yet are not even fazed a little bit about Bam, just tells me that you have some biases, especially since you never have any issues with Bush being slammed all day long for many of his gaffs, many similar to what Bam just did?

Artful Dodger: An argument over semantics.....it was on the Fox News channel, so sorry for all the confusion....oy veh

Jim Dandy: but it DID happen on Fox News.


NO it did NOT hapen on fox news

(V): Not just the content, but the intent and the timing.

Right... well the INTENT was COMEDY!!!!!!!

BTW, the intent of Bam was comedy as well, except Bam is NOT a comedian, he is president

Just because you do not think it was funny doesnt matter.... thats my point, I dont think making fun of Bush was funny either, but that does not make it wrong or that it should be banned or anything like that

You can have a personal dislike, anything you want, but that is all you get... the rest is just something annoying buzzing in my ear...

Jim Dandy: No it happened on Red Eye. So once again you get it wrong.